My Monday doctor’s appointment found me a very productive painkiller prescription finally. It’s a good thing, because I always do tons of physical activity with Nefarious (gotta offset the enormous meals I cook somehow), which can be draining without them… Today we spent about two hours running up and down the sled hill — sledding until well after dark. A while back we’d gotten her a new high-speed sled and she finally got to try it while and I used our old inflatable sled. There was also the fun of the other kids at the park — sharing rides, trading and comparing sleds, and so on.
I’m dealing right now with a delicate parenting conundrum… With a child that’s being raised in two households, how does one explain the use of corporal punishment (ie. spanking, mouth washing with soap, and such) in the household one has no control over it, without speaking ill of the other household? Any well-balanced advice is most definitely appreciated.
And to finish the entry on a high note, the ‘u’ key on my keyboard has started working again after being dead for a few weeks since I poured a cup of water on it… It’s been quite a headache, since I was operating by pasting a ‘u’ into the clipboard, and just hitting “CTRL+V” every time I needed it. I kid you not. Big headache. Even with all the oxycodone.
61 Comments
This should serve as a warning to pick the parent of your child very carefully.
Otherwise you’ll likely end up stuck dealing with philosophies contrary to your own……
Other than a restraining order… I think you’re fucked.
you could ask the courts to help set parenting guidelines for both households to follow based on the rules of the household that is the primary care giver. It’s sad to have to go to such lengths to insure your childs well being (ie, not being raised on fear and pain based punishments) but if mature comunication and resolution is not easily achived through communication with the other party, then it may be something you are forced to do.
As I told you in earlier conversations, I still would suggest checking the laws, I understand they differ state to state, but in several corporal punishment is not legal and soap in the mouth can be dangerous to your childs health. Not to mention breaking the bonds of trust the child may have for the other “parent”
I was in a similar situation as a kid, where one parent would spank me but the other wouldn’t. Obviously I don’t really know how my parents dealt with it, but it was something my sister and I just kinda understood. I don’t know if I ever even brought it up. Conversely, my mother was prone to occasionally speaking ill of my dad, so…
Apolicious, if you have the time to email me about your feelings about it, it would definitely help me out.
My parents divorced early on, and growing up I knew that I could act out more around my mom, would would just send me to my room, than my dad, who would spank me until I bled.
I am currently witnessing something very similar in my house. My dad has two sons with his ex-wife. It seems to me, that him avoiding asserting his beliefs on parenting has greatly reduced his ability to do his job as a parent. From what I see, the less he has put in his two cents on parenting, the bigger his hill has to climb and the more things he is having to compromise to fit his ex wife’s values
Sarah (and anyone else with the same experiences), I would definitely appreciate feedback either here or by private email about how this made you feel as a kid and how you explained it to yourself (if it was even an issue). Thanks.
I would just say that, this is something that the other parents knows from the way they were treated as a child, and sometimes people don’t move beyond what they know. You choose to use reason and deal with the child using logic. It’s Ari’s job (as my mother told me) “to do it better with the next group of kids be it hers or some child that she has contact with.
I don’t remember specifically how it made me feel, but I can tell you that growing up (at least until age 10), I liked my dad more than my mom. From there on out, I resented both my parents greatly, and I am not even sure WHY.
My parents used to ask me who I liked more. I strongly suggest not doing that! I hated that so much!
I still harbor very negative feelings about my dad, and it is only recently that we have been able to form any type of relationship (and honetly, I would not call what we have a “relationship.”)
That said, I was never scared of my dad. He could spank me all he wanted, I would act out and fight back.
One thing worth mentioning, though, is that I knew exactly how to use my parents against one another. Eventually they figured it out and presented a unified front, at which point crying to one did not help at all against the other. Once I figured out that they had figured it out, it made acting out much less fun.
I would talk to Rachel and see if you can find common parenting grounds. It might be hard, but in the long run it really will make a difference for Ari. You don’t have to agree about everything, but there should be some ground rules about how to act when things get bad.
I would like to add, and I feel pretty strongly about this, that I don’t think I was any better behaved because I was spanked. My mentality was that ‘so, I will get spanked, but I will have proved my point.’ I probably was not any worse behaved, either. The truth is that I was a strong headed child with little regard for my parents.
And I don’t think I am any better/worse off in the long run because of it. No real lasting effects.
What made a difference was having my parents cut me off.
Without spending money, or rides places, there is not much a kid can do. Unplug that tv and put a lock on the internet/video games, and the kid will shape up FAST.
if a parent chooses to hit their child as a form of discipline (because spanking is a fancy word for physically abusing a child) i think its the other parents job to explain to the child that it is wrong.
i’m not sure you can get away with being totally unbiased on this one.
you don’t need to badmouth the other parent, but you can certainly let your child know that you firmly disagree with this form of “discipline” and assure her that you will try to protect her from it in the future.
Well…I’m divorced and not on good terms with my ex – he can be…excessive in his discipline. I record everything the girls tell me about what he does (I don’t prod – they just tell me – the girls and I have a good relationship). The biggest problem is that if there aren’t any marks it is virtually impossible (at least on my end) to do much about it (especially at my girls young age).
The girls know how I discipline so they’re not scared of me – and I’m the primary caregiver so I have that.
In order to not bash the other parent in front of them I tell them that dad has his rules in his house and I have mine. I also tell them that if anyone tells them that they shouldn’t tell me something (with the exception of gifts and surprise parties) it’s a fairly good indicator that they SHOULD tell me.
It’s a tough call.
I wholeheartedly agree with Estrojen, spanking is a fancy word for child abuse, that is why it is so frowned upon by many. I truly believe that if you as a parent, and the one your child is to learn how to act from; resort to violence to teach them any lesson, the only lesson you have taughtis that you are violent and cannot be trusted.
And to wash a childs mouth out with soap is mideval and a pathetic and cruel thing to do to a child. There are other, more mature ways to handle any situation, and at Ari’s age she is able to be delt with through explaining to her what she has done wrong and why this action will not be tolerated.
To resort to violence on the one person that not only relies on you for their protection but to learn behaviour from is lazy parenting and a fast track to a child that not only does not trust you, but deep down just doesn’t like you, parent or not
As a new parent, I was given advice by a kindly old man:
“First, you talk to them, reason with them. If that doesn’t work, a swat on the behind might loosen the ear wax.”
My ex-husband and I had very different parenting styles. He disciplined as HE was disciplined, with much corporal punishment. I can remember being spanked once when I was little. I think we both went through phases of HATING our parents. Our daughter is 15 now and a bit of a handful, though a good kid overall.
I personally don’t think it’s wrong to swat a behind if you’ve first tried other measures. Ari’s about the age though where swatting a behind loses its effectiveness. Soap in the mouth is something many of our parents lived to tell about. It’s not going to kill a kid, though personally I don’t see the merit in it.
well, my father was the one to spank (and we were not allowed to cry during)… i hated him with every fiber of my being. and then i started questioning my mother how she could have married him and why she let him do that to me? her betrayal was sometimes worse than the spanking because i loved her so much.
but they lived in the same house. i don’t know how i would have felt if i hadn’t been able to check back in with her where i was safe and the world made sense. we would also lie to my father together. this made me a good liar and when he was around my life kind of froze because i was afraid of doing something he didn’t like. not because it was wrong necessarily but because i knew it would make him cross.
I had soap put in my mouth as a child, never swore in front of my parents again. In my experience, very effective and not scarring or upsetting. Just a gross taste and embarrassment.
I know a lot of people have really strong feelings when it comes to spanking and the like, so this _is_ an issue…
I agree with a lot of what Maggy and Sarah said. You should approach your ex in a way that doesn’t seem accusatory and work out a way to present a united front. It is also good to encourage her to be open if you are truly concerned that the spanking is becoming excessive (though I think that most parents who spank their kids don’t truly hurt them, though I’m sure others will argue).
My personal experience with my divorced parents was that both of them spanked, but it was done very differently. My mother was kind of emotionally unstable and at least once hit my brother with a wooden spoon until it broke. She used it to try and maintain control and got carried away sometimes. She also hit me in the face at least once that I can remember.
My father spanked, but it was one of those last resort kind of things and all it took was one or two whacks on the butt and we didn’t forget it. Still was not fun, but I never felt abused or like he didn’t love me.
So, maybe the best course of action is, if you’re not concerned for your daughter’s safety, is just to inform her that you parent one way and her mom parents another because you two are very different people. Then, when she’s a bit older, explain it to her more.
I will say, though, that I’m much older now, and my father is much more open with me because of it. I welcome it but, at times, he does say a lot of things about my mother that, while they’re mostly true, bother me because I feel like coming to her defense.
I just looked over everything I wrote…
Good luck.
To avoid putting your child in the middle I would not talk to her about it but rather go straight to the other parent. Talk to her in a diplomatic way to see if you can set up some similar boundaries for the sake of consistency from household to household. If that were impossible, I would take Joan’s suggestion and see if a court can help you to mandate some limits. I’m sorry but I think this type of violence comes from letting ones anger get the best of you rather than a desire to discipline and correct the child. I have spanked myself and am able to admit that it came from a moment of sheer frustration and anger. I believe that when a parent allows himself or herself to excuse such behavior by mineralizing it could lead to extreme forms of physical punishment (soap in the mouth say….) as the child becomes accustomed to lesser punishments as is less effected by them.
high speed sleds – check out https://www.madriverrocket.com. I have a few of these and they are a hoot…very controllable and very fast.
I’m not a parent, but used to experience child abuse pretty regularly, include physical abuse with hands, belts, and a horse whip. I think that’s most of the reason that, on those few occasions when I see family, we don’t let conversations go beyond the weather. Traditionally, kids who are abused tend to become parents who abuse, mostly because it’s what they consider normal, which means it’s not 100% their fault.
In the case of getting story from a kid, though, keep in mind that kids sometimes exagerate, and Ari’s using subjective terms in any case.
Maybe ask her what she did and what punishment she feels may have been more appropriate?
Definitely stick with the strategy of not saying bad things about her. No parent should ever say bad things to their kids about the other parent at that age. Parents have to be role models, good or bad, and pointing out the bad is something you don’t want to do.
Oh, and I remember sledding on the old wood sleds with two steel runners that usually sank right through the snow all the way down to the wood deck. Those rolled-up plastic sheet sleds were great!
I was never spanked. I never feared my parents. I was (and still am) far more worried about DISAPPOINTING them. Big time.
I am not sure what exactly I would do to a person who hit my kids. I can’t even fathom it frankly, I can’t imagine what you are going through.
I don’t think violence is fine. I don’t you have to bad mouth mom, but I do think (as EstroJenn posted) that making it clear that Ari knows that you are are there for her and will do what you can to protect her as her father from anything that hurts her, as afflicted from anyone.
And if she wants your help in ending that violence from mom, then you do it.
Both my Mother and my Mother in Law spanked my daughter and it is good that visits were not mandatory because there was never another visit for either of them with me not around until she was a teen.
My Mother shittalked my Dad, my Dad would never say one word about my Mother. As a child I took this from him to be a lack of concern. Maybe discuss actions that you dissapprove of, but not the person themself. Were it me I would simply say “well, you know that I dont spank you and I feel that this is wrong”. You only have so much control over what happens with the other parent and that is the sad truth. I still resent that more was not done to remove me from my abusive situation but mine involved being beaten, literally.
Speak to Rachel. Take notes. Report it.
Spanking as disipline may still be legal- I don’t believe the same is true for what’s going on.
Washing a childs mouth out with soap is purely sadistic.
All children are different and what they experience will effect them all differently. 1 child may hate the abuser while the other resents the one that didn’t protect them. One truth remains, the humiliation, degradation and fear mongoring WILL change them forever.
https://www.cwla.org/voice/0707dad.htm hey Shanon this is a great article on spanking and the use of soap in the mouth as a deterant..
Also on a side note, many can say “hey I had soap in the mouth as a child and I’m fine” but that is a ridiculous argument, on doing research on this I found many articles on the use of noxious substances frced into a child’s mouth as punishment. There were several article on it causing the deah of the child from aspirating on vomit and even on the soap itself..Ingesting soap can cause diareah and vomiting, bith which can cause death or illnes. And think of the force anyone would have to use to force it into an unwilling child’s mouth, that alone is abusive.
Almsot every article I read called this practice torture. Any parent that has to stoop to torturing their child is not parenting, they are abusing. It’s wrong and it’s sad
crap I suck at typing
The only advice I acould give is to ask her (Ari) if she learned anything from it. I know I have made a few errors in my parenting and what stands out in my mind was the first time my son told me (at the age of about eight) that raising my voice just scared him, and that when I did that he no longer understood what I was trying to say to him. Maybe if the message came directly from her rather than from a second party (other parent or a lawyer for that matter), the point might be understood at the other end with a bit more compassion and understanding. Just my two cents.
Once my daughter was old enough to reason with using language (what a concept!), she didn’t need that “pay attention to what I am saying” light swat on the bum. And that ended while she was still in diapers.
The things you mentioned are about asserting power, control and dominance over another individual that is being perceived as personal property. Here is a good rule of thumb – What would be the reaction if the family member(s) did that to another grownup? What would the reaction be if you did the same thing to a member of your ex’s family? Would there be assault charges? Worse?
Call my stupid, but I always found reason and respect worked quite well – Please hold onto my hand when we are crossing the street because it helps me to protect you from traffic – point out a vehicle and ask what they think would happen if they got hit by it? Help them to understand why you are asking for a behaviour change – make them a part of the solution. I always respected my daughter – as a young adult – she now carries that respect (for others and herself) forward in her life. I can’t tell you how much joy that brings me as a parent!
How does corporal punishment promote a healthy mind and a positive self-image – the very things we need to succeed as adults? What does it teach other than violence is acceptable behaviour?
Protect your daughter.
Thanks everyone so much for the feedback. I greatly appreciate it and it’s been really helpful.
This isn’t the sort of thing I’d normally post about publicly but I really needed to hear from people who’d gone through it and again, thank you everyone for the help.
Hey Shannon This the first time that I read your blog this year. Nice to know about you and Caitlin. Good Lucky this year with your projects.
Hey Shannon!
In my experience spanking and hitting just create an environment of mistrust. I never knew what exactly would set my dad off and give me a spanking (usually with his belt), because sometimes me swearing was cute and my backtalk was “funny” and sometimes would piss him off. I wish that my mom had been able to sit down with him and talk to him about setting actual rules so us kids would know how to act but she couldn’t be in the same room with him for more than a minute without getting out the big guns. As soon as I was old enough I opted to live with her, and moved away all together at 18. I agree with Ashley about Ari being too old for spanking. Try to set some common house rules and let Ari be involved in the process it is easier to follow rules you understand and help make.
Good Luck!
I was spanked as a child, along with my brother and sister. Mostly by my step father who I haven’t spoken to in over ten years. We spent our entire childhood TERRIFIED of him, and my brother and sister (his biological children) see him once a year and speak to him on the phone a couple of times- and everyone lives in the same city as him.
Being spanked was one of the most humiliating experiences of my entire life. I *hated* my step father because of it and because of other mean things he’d do to us. Acting out- spanking, calling names, washing a mouth out with soap- to any child is absolutely DESPICABLE and should not be tolerated by the child or the other parent. How to go about not letting it happen again, especially with someone as stubborn (etc etc) as Rachel, I have no idea.
I would let Ari know that you do not agree with such “disciplinary” acts and let her know that she never has to fear you- that you’re on her side. Speaking to children her age in terms that they can understand, and being patient with them as they purposely push limits and break rules (it’s all part of being a kid), and recognizing that they’re not often trying to fuck you over may help avoid the lashing out part.
That’s the only thing I can think of- why any mother would act in that way. I mean, she just must have been furious, right? I cannot EVER imagine treating my child like that, no matter what they said to me, especially if it’s such a stupid thing like a swear word or whatever.
I don’t know how to stop it. All I know is that if Rachel wants Ari to grow up and feel resentment towards her, she’s on the right goddamn path.
I have mixed feelings about your post.
I think a gentle swat on the butt or the hand is acceptable to draw attention to danger. But never in anger.
And I think “soap in the mouth” is a milder form of corporal punishment.
I have a nephew who went through the potty mouth phase when he was six.
His mom told me she had threatened him with the soap, but hadn’t done it.
So on our next visit I took him in the kitchen and pulled out the Dawn. I put a drop on my finger and a drop on his.
Then we both stuck our finger in our own mouth. He quickly wiped his own tongue on his sleeve.
I told him “gross huh? Imagine a whole bar of soap, that’s what my Grandmother did to me. I couldn’t brush the taste away.”
That was several years ago, and he eventually outgrew that stage. He does still slip up but his mother never gave him the whole bar.
However what my mother and her girlfriend did to my brother was abuse. When he was still small he still wet himself. They would shove the wet pants in his face, spank him and send him to his room. Then they would get a glass of salted lemon juice/water.
They would show him his underwear had been rinsed out and tell him that what was in the glass was the “piss from his pants”. And then they would make him drink it.
Hey Shannon,
My parents are divorced. My mom tried to base an entire relationship with me on shit-talking my dad. Eventually I grew tired of hearing her speak negatively about him and really resented her as I grew up. She fully admits what a mistake it was now. On the other hand, my dad always let me know that he was there for me and only talked to me about my mom when it was absolutely necessary (legal custody things). I respect him a lot for it to this day. Good Luck with everything!
I don’t get the spanking thing at all. My parents both used to hit me and my brother. What was the point, I always knew that they were physically stronger than me, so why forcing that knowledge on us again and again?
For me, even at a young age, getting hit by my parents meant that I had won the particular fight that lead to the hit, because appeareantly they had no arguments left and were so helpless that they had to show who was the boss in such a childish way. They reduced themselves to the level of the folks they ddn’t allow me to play with. And they didn’t even realized that.
Hey Shannon!
Just a small comment to “…without speaking ill of the other household?”
My parents divorce was horrible – like a textbook example of what not to do. Still today I’m extra sensitive when it comes to critic from one parent about the other, since I know that they strongly dislike each other and most likely wouldn’t say anything nice about each other.
So, what you consider being not speaking ill could be interpreted from Nefarious POV that you do. Tho, it really is a “could be”, since I know very little about your situation.
Hey Shannon!
I posted above and I thought I’d let you know I’m not THE Rachel but A Rachel. So I’ll add my middle name to avoid confusion. Sorry about the mix up!
IMO:
When confronted with a household that uses that uses pain & fear on children, the solution is to burn it down while the occupants are away. maybe they will learn from their mistakes through loss…
My parents weren’t divorced but my father was a spanker. This led me, personally, to isolate myself from my family and be very secretive because I didn’t want to draw any attention to myself. This has caused a lot of issues with boundaries and trust in my life. (My father was also an alcoholic who was nicer when he drank, which creates a how different level of ‘fucked up’) Now that I am a parent myself, we have a firm rule of no one touches your body without permission (unless its necessary for safety.) Since we recently found out that our children’s former child care provider’s husband was a pedophile, and that our children seem to be ones that were not touch, I strongly feel that perhaps some of this comes from knowing that “no means no” when it comes to their bodies, and they are allowed and supported to tell adults not to touch them.
this is actually really hard for me to think about. my parents split up when i was just over a year old. my mum had primary custody of me, but until I was 12, i still had to see him on and off, including going to his house for weekends, summers, etc….. my father was the punisher. soap in the mouth, meanial labor, spankings, etc…. he was a complete control freak. it was his way or no way at all. i HATE him, even now. i was so fearful of him that when i was told i would be going to his house i would cry, scream, vomit…. whatever it took to not have to go. i even ran away from my mum once over it, and i love her and all of her parenting imperfections (which do not include hitting). every time i would come home from his house, i would act out. pick fights with my mum, break things, light fires…. as I got older it turned into worse things… nightmares, depression, self-injury, fury, self-isolation…. and i wasn’t even 12 yet.
when i was 18 i went to his fathers house for thanksgiving. it was a 6 hour bus ride to get there. i hadn’t spoken to my father in 6 years. his father promised me that my father would not be there and that he would not tell him that i was there. of course, i arrive and my father is there. i left on the bus to go home less than 30 mins after i saw his face.
i’m 27 years old at this very moment, and thinking about this makes me go completely cold inside. He ruled by fear, not love or compassion. To this day I still do not have a relationship with him because it’s still his way or no way. and I’m an adult!!! the saddest part is that i KNOW that he is actually an amazing human being with miles of compassion and love for the world… but he did so much damage by never letting me have a say, or talking things out and giving me a chance to reason through it and LEARN, that I still just can’t get over it. I’m terrified to let MY 5 year old around him. there is NO trust between us. no relationship.
sorry this is rambling, but as i said, even now i’m still raw about it. i don’t know if i will ever get over it, or ever trust him. i’m not an equal in his eyes. just something to be ordered around and controlled.
OK so I stopped reading the replies awhile ago..but come on..washing a kids mouth out with soap is really NOT that big a deal. Guess what, it tastes like crap, is embarrassing, and makes them think twice next time. Sadistic? I don’t think so. My parents used spanking very infrequently…I can remember being spanked maybe twice. It wasn’t a beating..maybe one or two hard whacks. For me, it did make me think twice before doing something real stupid, mainly b/c I found it so humiliating. Let’s face it, little kids won’t always respond to a nice discussion about logical reasons not to do things. They are kids, after all.
Now I realize I don’t really know the whole situation. Ari could actually be being abused for all I know. But from your description, it doesn’t sound like it.
a child should NEVER ever been hit or spanked at all.
also washing mouth with soap is bad bad bad idea.
you should use more proper punishment like sit in a corner or writing like 10 to 50 sentences “I will not use dirty word.” very important is to talk and discuss with your child. education is important.
hitting, spanking, and some form of torture will not ever help child learn on what is wrong and right.
I don’t think anyone knows the extent of what has gone on other than Shannons ex and his daughter.
If you put the pieces together over what has been witnessed by others, said directly by the perpetrator and been told by the child… yes, it’s abuse and yes, it’s sadistic. Anyone that finds, even momentary gratification and enjoyment through physically harming and humiliating their child is.
I’m stating my own personal views as are others, you’re free to disagree but you should probably weigh first, whats gone on over several years.
I also think that locking your child in a bathroom for the night to be abusive, tho you have the right to disagree.
On some levels locking a child up like that is more cruel in my opinion…
Ely..writing something 50 times could be rather painful on the child’s wrist..so is that not sadistic too? Nicole I heartily agree I have no true idea what’s going on in their family…I know nothing of what was witnessed by others since I know none of these people directly. I’m betting most of the people responding to this post don’t know them directly either (or maybe I’m wrong and you are all personal, RL friends..tell me if this is so). I’m just basing my opinion on what I’ve read about this on here. I just think some people are going overboard with labeling all these things as child abuse..maybe Shannon has mentioned something I’ve missed? I don’t think the occasional spanking or soap incident is child abuse.
And I do agree you should explain what your child did wrong, and why they are being punished. You shouldn’t leave them in the dark as to what they did wrong..how can they learn that way? But I also think things like spanking have a place if a child can’t be reasoned with..and not all of them can.
Carmen, I WAS friends with her until I witnessed one too many incedents that were “abuse” and it really shocks me to read you say spankings and soap in the mouth is not abusive.
If you could think for one moment of the amount of force it would take to put soap into a childs mouth against their will maybe you would get it, or perhaps read the articles on the children that have died from EXACTLY that form of “parenting”.
To put a noxious substance into a childs mouth to teach them a lesson, all it teaches them is not only to not trust that parent because they could respond with a humiliating and painful approach but that also violence is a corect response to not getting your point across.
I am a mom, and many times my little girl does not do as she is told, it happens, thats how children learn boundaries, but I NEVER respond with violence, I don’t even agree with yelling at her, we discuss what she did wrong and the repurcussions of her actions, like taking away a privlidge, like no movies for 2 days or I take a toy away from her.
One thing I work very hard to teach her is that violence is wrong, how do I get that point across if she won’t listen at first? Should I give her a good spanking to show her I think hitting is bad? I constantly hear from her teachers what a sweet little girl she is, I have never heard of her hitting except one time after she had a weekend at her fathers where I later found out she got a swat on the bum. Do you not see the conection here? She no longer is allowed to see him and she has never resorted to violence since.
I grew up with a VERY violent father, there is no grey area when it comes to abuse, to resort, out of anger or frustration to striking or hurting your child in any way, or humiliating them, you have failed as a parent.
Personally (as it has worked for me) Is discuss with the other parent what form of punishment if any is appropriate and adhere to it. That way the child won’t have the idea that ones is more harsh then the others.
I can’t believe Carmen thinks washing a child’s mouth out with soap and water is not a big deal!
Maybe not for you as an adult, Carmen, because you can defend yourself, rationalise what is going on and tell whoever is doing it to ‘fuck off’ but for a child this would be an extremely traumatising experience that would have a detrimental effect on their bond with the parent/carer who did it. And if that’s the best way you think a child should be disciplined you really shouldn’t have kids.
Shannon – I was spanked as a child if I was very bold, until I was around Ari’s age I guess. After that my mother would just lift the wooden spoon out of the cutlery drawer and I would toe the line – although she would never hit me with it!
But spanking never did me any harm. It was rare and probably warranted, and if I had kids I would spank them when absolutely necessary. But i’m not a parent so not best qualified to speak on this subject :)
I have been in the same situation with my own children. Their father felt that “soap in the mouth” and “spanking” were the only way to deal with unacceptable behavior where I on the other hand am a fan of “timeout” and communicating in a way the child can understand along with apologies when necessary(coming from the child). It finally evolved to the point that he no longer is allowed visitation with the children. I am not sure this is the best thing for them, but the courts seemed to think it was. He on the other hand could care less but that is another story. I wish you all the best in this matter and in life in general. <3
I was reported to my son’s therapist for washing his mouth out with soap (it was a consequence that was known by my son for a specific action) by my exhusband. The therapist asked me about it and because I was following thru with a consequence he said he would overlook it this time but in my state, soap in the mouth is considered child abuse. He suggested me finding another consequence. Fine. not a problem.
Two weeks later my ex caught our son playing with matches and surprised the kid with holding his hand above a lit lighter as punishment. It was about that time that the therapist realized what a nut job my ex is.
No matter which side of the fence you fall on, corporal or non-corporal, be careful.
Joanne..I don’t understand..truly I don’t..why is the soap thing horrible while spanking isn’t?
Joan..maybe it’s just my own experience (or rather my experience with friends children, as I don’t have kids). But I see so many children who are completely disruptive and do not listen to their parents. They are brats in the extreme. Their parents don’t believe in spanking. Not that we’ve had long parenting discussions..but if they see a parent swat the hand of a child misbehaving in a grocery store..they are very bothered by it. But then, clearly whatever their method of child rearing is, it hasn’t worked in keeping children obedient.
Carmen – because having soap shoved into your mouth, probably making you retch and vomit, is a far, far more traumatising experience than one quick smack to the back of the legs. It’s sick, unnecessary and it seems almost sadistic to me.
It makes me so angry to think a “mother” would put soap in their child’s mouth because they said something naughty. I think if that happened me as a child I would seriously hold it against my mother even as an adult.
Although I don’t have any kids, I’ve nevertheless been following this discussion with some interest. When I was brought up, “parenting” wasn’t a word or even a concept particularly.
I got my fair quota of smacks as a youngster – always I think from my mother – and when the situation warranted it, administered in public. I also on at least one occasion got spanked with a gym plimsoll at primary school. Politically incorrect it may be now, but at the time it all seemed to me a perfectly normal part of growing up and learning how to behave.
The “You can go and wash your mouth out with soap” was used as a threat for saying ‘dirty’ words, but I never had it carried out on me, and I don’t know anyone who did. Neither of my parents never swore in front of me, and even as an adult, I never used bad language within their earshot.
Whether it’s soap in the mouth or a swat on the bum, it’s not about the ACTIONS of the adult, it’s about how it’s supposed to make the child FEEL. Both would make the child feel humiliated enough, or physically in pain enough not to do what they did in order to earn that punishment. Both of those things, in my opinion, are abusive because of the intent of the adult.
Shannon wrote:
Sarah (and anyone else with the same experiences), I would definitely appreciate feedback either here or by private email about how this made you feel as a kid and how you explained it to yourself (if it was even an issue). Thanks
If you were to speak to 20 year Toronto City Cops they’d tell you that the worse call is the domestic call. It is so nuts and when one counts the broken bodies and dead people domestic violence up to and including beatings and death exceeds crime violence and we won’t even cross over to the violence we declare and live whether NFL and dead at 54 or Generation Kill.
What ever happened to those guys who scammed five million out of the Bank of Montreal and took off for Switzerland. Of course they’re dead. You can’t do that – I think it was three guys – they worked for the bank and created an account over a couple of years with a line of credit at 5 mil THEN pulled the money and ran. They had a party before they did the deed. It got a couple days of PLAY on CBC and they never caught them. Yeah sure.
You have to decide if Ari is under any real danger beyond having a mother whose life is most likely coming apart big time. By her own admission there have been no renewals to speak of and you can’t run the old site on a do it-yourself T-Shirt operation. Esp if as she reports you lose 1000s in ink learning how to do it.
Before she (Milo, Rachel) took her page off “public” she declared she has hurt her back and could not continue.
She has said that the intellectual property is going back to the people who are in the pix. So connect the dots.
And how exactly do you or rather Milo explain to the court that you washed your kid’s mouth out for saying fuck when the court has a pix of you wearing a T-Shirt saying that you prefer your men with split cocks.
In case you are wondering. The last thing I would do is agree with the general view here that the courts can intervene esp in either of your cases.
For better or worse Ari must be minutes, hours, days or weeks from the self-awareness the realization that she can destroy either of you or both of you. And that finally is it. It’s Ari’s call.
If destroy is too extreme – wound.
But she’s just a little girl.
Yeah – and she has that power and given her IQ and what she has seen – I would be astonished if in fact there is anything here she would not understand.
Anyway – been there done that and I have got the T-Shirt.
I’m quite obviously against corporal punishment. We have 3 pre-teen children who are some of the most respectful, good natured, intelligent and loving children. Although I realize no child is the same and that some parents do use “corporal punishment” as a way to train their child into obedience, like a dog, ahem!- I think what bothers me most in this circumstance is the frequency and fact that the other parent, the one sparing the rod, is not the main care provider.
It seems to be escalating and while this parent may only have custody of this child once every 3 months, it is more caregiving than actual parenting. Her disapline is out of line and hopfully some form of mediation can be obtained.
Breaks my heart that you fired a nanny for spanking your child but can’t do the same with someone else having limited access due to genetics.
sad.
Starbadger… you said it all.
I was brought up by my Grandmother, she never spanked me at all, at least not that I can recall. If she really wanted to scare me she would threaten to tell my father(he did not live with us) I was terrified of him for various reasons. He never hit me, ever, but would often threaten me with a belt…it was enough, firstly I didn’t dare misbehave anywhere near him but more important to make me scared of him and grow up hating him. I have not seen or spoken to him for 23 years!
Carmen,
I dont know, I thought writing is easy on child.
Thanks for pointing out about that.
I was spanked many more times than once, I’ve had my mouth washed out with bar of Ivory and I also was pushed down a staircase.
The latter experience had me at the hospital. I told the nurses and doctors what I’d experienced then as a mere six year-old, but the authorities dismissed it as nothing. My parents subsequently threatened me with being taken away from them as a further deterrent from talking about it again despite the scabs I had on my face and the scar on my upper lip that identifies me today.
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